Notes on CF 18

Notes on CF 18:

This:

A. identifies two sons of Thomas McM md Marion Bole 1781 Kirkmichael namely, James md Elizabeth Wylie 1820 Ayr and John md 1805 Margaret Niven Dalmellington.

B. clarifies relationship of Thomas md 1781 to John md 1802 Julia McGavin

C. postulates parentage and lineage of Thomas.

A. Sons of Thomas McM md Marion Bole 1781 (CF 18)

1. CF 18 possible link to CF 49

James McMurtrie who married Elizabeth Wylie in 1820 in Ayr and died in Ayr in 1825 appears to be one of the sons of Thomas McMurtrie who married Marion Bole and lived in Dam of Barnshean, Kirkmichael.

In inspecting the gravestone inscriptions for Kirkmichael, it was noticed that even though James McMurtrie of CF 49 married Elizabeth Wyllie in Ayr in 1820 and died there, he was buried in Kirkmichael.

Carrick Monumental Inscriptions

James McMurtrie in Kirkmichael

-by Eliz Wyllie imo h Jas McMurtrie, Ayr d 15.7.1825 35

(imo h=in memory of her husband)

According to a descendant of their daughter Marion, Elizabeth Wyllie remarried on 25 March 1831, Ayr to Archibald Clark. This is consistent with the death record for Elizabeth:

1877 Elizabeth 79 Hutchesontown, Gl (hence b 1798)

Elizabeth Clark, widow of 1) James McM, druggist's asst & 2) Arch. Clark,writer, d 23 Oct 1877 @ 411 Govan St, Glasgow, aged 79/Dau of Andrew Wylie, handloom weaver dec'd & Eliz Matheison dec'd. Inf; E.W. Pettigrew, gr-dau, 40 Elderslie St, Gl

Hence James McM was born 1789-90.

The tombstone indicates a 1789-90 birth year and the parish registers show that a James was born in 1789 to Thomas and Marion Bole and no other James birth’s in Kirkmichael within 13 years. James and Elizabeth Wylie McM's first daughter was Marion McMurtrie, which would also be his mother’s name if he were son of Thomas and Marion Bole McM. This suggests that CF 49 is probably son of Thomas of CF 18.

CF 21	B	1777	Feb 89/9	Kirkmichael	James son to Hugh in Ladyburn
CF 18	B	1789	May 30	Kirkmichael	James son to Thomas in Dam of Barnshean
CF 21	M	1804	Sept 9	Kirkmichael	James and Mary McFadzean

John McM md Margaret Niven in 1805 in Dalmellington

CFT-99. There is a John McM of Dalmellington who marries there to Margaret Niven of Maybole in 1805, but has his first child in Dam of Barnshean, then moves to Abbey Paisely, back to Ayr, back to Maybole. He had a daughter Margaret, b1808 and though she is listed as born Abbey Paisley in my records but her family had been in Kirkmichael.

This suggests a connection to the Barnshean family and this John’s marriage suggests a birth around 1783 which is when John son of Thomas of CF 18 was born.

R	CFT 99	M	1805	Nov 9	Dalmellington	John McM in t.p. & Margaret Niven in par of Maybole
D	CFT 99	B	1806	Apr 15/30	Kirkmichael	William son to John McM and Margaret Niven in Dam of Barnshean
M	CFT 99	B	1808	Jan 17	Abbey (Paisely)	McMurtrie,Margaret : John McMurtrie/ Margaret Niven
M	CFT 99	B	1810	Apr 15	Ayr	McMurtrie,John Paterson: JohnMcM / Niven,Margaret
D	CFT 99	B	1819	Mar 22	Maybole	James, to John McM and Margaret Niven

B. Identity of John McM md 1802 Julia McGavin

CF 18 link to John McM father of Margaret McM who md Andrew Kay

Maggie Holland writing in 1939 at the age of 58 from Manitoba:

"Now you want to know about Margaret McMurtrie married Andrew Kay. she was a cousin to my grandfather and I don't know if there was any more of that family of McMurtrie. I think her father was a farmer. You might be able to get her record if you sent to Edinburgh.

...

I forgot that my grandfather had a brother in Ayr the name of Robert McMurtrie kept a carriage hiring business in Dalblair Road, Ayr and there are some of his descendants in Ayr yet. I know he had a granddaugher died a year ago last fall. Margaret McMurtrie or Kay her daughter Margaret married my mother's brother Thos Wallet."

Note by RKM: I agree that Robert was Mrs. Holland's grandfather's brother, but if she is accurate about Margaret’s father being a cousin to her grandfather, then Margaret’s father is a nephew to Thomas, not a brother.

Thomas md 1781 with a brother b 1740-1760 md about 1780 having a son John md 1802.

C. Origins

I don’t see anyting matching the above structure extremely nicely, but we do have in Straiton:

Andrew md Anna Egleshone

John b 1736 Straiton md Elizabeth McKergow 1757 (age 21)

John b 1764 Straiton (could be John md 1802 Julia McGavin (age

22) at Dalrymple at age 38)

Thomas b 1742 Straiton (could be Thomas md Marion Bole 1781 Kirkmichael at

age 38)

This Andrew can be traced back to David McM md 1665 in Kirkmichael!

This speculation would would fit nicely except for the high age (38) for making this fit. So we are left with no good answers, just a long shot possibility.

If the DNA from the Straiton family comes back different than the Dalmellington signature, then DNA could possibly distinguish the origins of the CF 18 family group.

The CF 18 family originated in and the children were all born in Kirkmichael; Thomas came to Maybole in 1823 and settled in Dalmellington in 1826; Robert came to Ayr by 1826;

My reconstruction:

Thomas b 1742 md 1781 Marion Boyle ------------------------------John b 1736

(Kirkmichael, Dam of Barnshean)

____|__________________________________________________ _|_

| | | |

Thomas b 1794 md Agnes Hood Robert b 1800 John John

| B 1783 b1770-1780

| md 1805 m 1802

| Janet Julia

| Niven McGain/McGowan

| Dalmellington Dalrymple

| | |

Charles b 1838 md Jean Wallet William Margaret b

1841 Dalmell b 1806 b 1811/09

| Dam of Barnshean md.

| Andrew Kay

| 1818 Dal.

Margaret b1881 md John Holland |

Margaret

md Thomas Wallet

The CF 18 family originated in and the children were all born in Kirkmichael; Son Thomas b 1793 md in Dalrymple in 1820, came to Maybole in 1823 and settled in Dalmellington in 1826; Robert came to Ayr by 1826.

John married on 18 June 1802 in Kirkmichael to Julia McGain/McGowan of Sorn.

CF18

1866

Julia

Dumfermline

I have John’s son John b 1812 Cronnyhill, md Agnes McLean in Barony, Glasgow in 1848, then went to Ireland, returning to Dunfermline in Fifeshire. John died 1887 Inverkeithing, Fife.

Daughter Elizabeth b 1804 Netherton, Kirkmichael md 1824 Robert Parker and died 1884 Blackfriars.

I have Margaret Kay’s death cert which states:

Margaret Kay (Widower of Andrew Kay, Grocer); April 23, 1890; 6h 5m; Dalmellington; 81; John McMurtrie; Customer Weaver (sp) (deceased); Julia McMurtrie MS McGain (deceased); Cardiac Disease; John Kay, Son, 24 ____ St.

1861 Scotland Census

about Julia McMurtrie

Name: Julia McMurtrie

Age: 14

Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847

Relationship: Daughter

Father's Name: John

Mother's Name: Agnes M

Gender: Female

Where born: Rothsay, Isle of Bute

Registration Number: 424/2

Registration district: Dunfermline Landward

Civil Parish: Dunfermline Landward

County: Fife

Address: Middlebank Lodge

ED: 4

Household schedule number: 42

Line: 18

Roll: CSSCT1861_55

Household Members: Name Age

John McMurtrie 44 b Carmichael (=>1817) gardener 1871 census says b 1812)

Agnes M McMurtrie 38

Mary Arnott 70

Grace Blyth 26

Julia McGowan 81 b Old Cumnock (=>1780)

Julia McMurtrie 14

Margaret McMurtrie 12

John McMurtrie 10

Mathew M McMurtrie 8

William McMurtrie 4

Elizabeth McMurtrie 6

Jessie M McMurtrie 1

D. Unidentified Johns: We have a John md 1802 Dalrymple to Mary Langwell Laurieston

That given the proximity to Barnshean was investigated to see where he would fit. However, in the age period 19 to 37, there do not seem to be any open possibilities.

We have these four John births and

CF 32 b 1775 Nov 14 John Gilbert Dailly

CF 21 B1782 May 18 John son of Hugh of Ladyburn, Kirkmichael

CF 4 B1783 Mar 27 John son of James of Dailly

CF 18 B1783 May 28 John son of Thomas and Marion Bole, Dam of Barnshean, Kirkmichael

CF 37 B1783 Dec 16 John son of Thomas of Fardencala, Kirkoswald

If we go a bit futher afield:

1762	Kirkmichael		John son to David in Little Barnshean
1764	Kirkmichael		McMurtrie,John : John McMurtrie/
1765	Kirkmichael		John son to John in Barnshean
1765	Kirkmichael		John son to William McM in Clauchencroft
1765	Kirkmichael		McMurtrie,John : William McMurtrie/
1765	Straiton		John ch of William McM in Mains of Whitefoord and Janet Campbell
1768		Dalmellington		John McM s of William McM weaver
1770		Dalmellington		John McM s of John McM of Dalharco

These Johns would be 32 to 40 at marriage date. There are two many possibilities to figure this out.

1802 Dec 9 John Langwell,Mary Dalrymple

1802 Jun 18 John McGain,Julie Kirkmichael CF 18

1805 Nov 9 John Niven,Margaret Dalmellington CF 18

1805 Nov 30 John Dick,Janet Kirkmichael Probably CF 21

1802	McMurtrie,John and Mary Langwell

1803	John son to John McM and Mary Langwell Lauriston
1805	David son toJohn McM and Mary Langwell Lauriston
1806	James son toJohn McM and Mary Langwell Lauriston
1811	Jean dau to John McM and Mary Langwell Lauriston
1813	Margaret : John McMurtrie/ Mary Langwill

I can not see a likely identity for John md Mary Langwell

CF 49 ref

D	CF 49	M	1820	Feb 19	Ayr	James McM and Elizabeth Wyllie
D	CF 49	B	1822	Mar 26	Ayr	Andrew Douglas, son to James McM, shopman to Dr. Whiteside, and Eliz Wyllie
M	CF 49	M	1841	Jun 6	Glasgow	McMurtrie,Andrew : Margaret Robertson
D	CF 49	B	1842		Glasgow	James McM lawful son of Andrew McM tailor & Margaret Robertson
M	CF 49	B	1844	May 21	Barony	McMurtrie,Mary : Andrew McMurtrie / Margaret Robertson
D	CF 49	B	1846	Jans 22/23	Gorbals	Elizabeth and Margaret, twins of Andrew McMurtie & Margaret Robertson itp
D	CF 49	B	1846	Jans 22/23	Gorbals	Elizabeth and Margaret, twins of Andrew McMurtie & Margaret Robertson itp
M	CF 49	B	1848	May 27	Glasgow	McMurtrie,Marion : Andrew McMurtrie / Margaret Robertson
M	CF 49	B	1850	Apr 25	Glasgow	McMurtrie,Margaret : Andrew McMurtrie / Margaret Robertson
D	CF 49	B	1851	Jun 8	Newton on Ayr	Robert Douglas, l. son to Andrew Douglas McM and Margaret Robertson
D	CF 49	B	1852		Newton on Ayr	Andrew Douglas, l. son to Andrew Douglas McM and Margaret Robertson
D	CF 49	B	1854	Mar 19	Newton on Ayr	Robert, l. son to Andrew Douglas McM and Margaret Robertson

Itp= in this parish

CF 18 ref

D	CF 18	M	1781	May 31	Kirkmichael	Thomas McM and Marion Bole	AYR
D	CF 18	B	1783	May 28	Kirkmichael	John son to Thomas in Dam of Barnshean	AYR
D	CF 18	B	1785	May 3/Jun 1	Kirkmichael	David son to Thomas in Dam of Barnshean	AYR
D	CF 18	B	1786	Aug 13/15	Kirkmichael	William son to Thomas in Dam of Barnshean	AYR
D	CF 18	B	1789	May 30	Kirkmichael	James son to Thomas in Dam of Barnshean	AYR
D	CF 18	B	1793	Sept 3/4	Kirkmichael	Thomas son to Thomas in Dam of Barnshean	AYR
D	CF 18	B	1796	Dec 15/21	Kirkmichael	Elizabeth d to Thomas in Dam of Barnshean	AYR
D	CF 18	B	1800	May 17/24	Kirkmichael	Robert son to Thomas in Dam of Barnshean	AYR
D	CF 18	M	1802	Jun 18	Kirkmichael	John McM and Julie McGain of Sorn m at Dalrymple	AYR
S	CF 18	M	1820	Dec 8	Coylton	Thomas McM of Dalrymple married Agnes Hood of Coylton	AYR
S	CF 18	M	1820	Dec 8	Dalrymple	Thomas McM of Dalrymple and Agnes Hood of Coylton	AYR
S	CF 18	B	1822	Mar 22/nov 13	Dalrymple	Elizabeth dau to Thomas McM and Agnes Hood of Skeldon	AYR
M	CF 18	B	1823	Nov 13	Maybole	McMurtrie,Agnes: Thomas McM /Agnes Hood	AYR
M	CF 18	M	1824	Nov 26	Kirkmichael	McMurtrie,Elizabeth and Robert Parker	AYR
R	CF 18	B	1826	Feb 10	Dalmellington	Thomas McM, butler, Berbath by Agnes Hood, b Feb 10,1826 bap Marion 3rd child,3rd dau	AYR
D	CF 18	M	1826	Jan 21	Ayr	Robert McM and Jean McGill	AYR
R	CF 18	M	1826	Jan 20 ?	Dalmellington	Robert McM in Ayr & Jane McGill i.t.p. Jan 20 or Jan 28, md Jan 31	AYR
D	CF 18	B	1827	Sep 26	St Quivox	Janet, dau to Robert McM and Jean Gill (Janet McGill?)	AYR
R	CF 18	B	1828	Nov 11	Dalmellington	Jane, 4th chld 4th dau to Thomas McM, butler & Agnes Hood, born 11, bapt 15 Nov 1828	AYR
D	CF 18	B	1829	Nov 11	Ayr	Marion, dau to Robert McM, servant and Jean McGill	AYR
S	CF 18	D	1830	Jan 3	Ayr	Marion, 7, dau of Robert McM, innkeeper	AYR
M	CF 18	B	1831	Jun 28	Dalmellington	McMurtrie,Margaret : Thomas McMurtrie/ Agnes Hood	AYR
D	CF 18	B	1832	Jul 6	Ayr	James, son to Robert McM, Innkeeper, and Jean McGill	AYR
D	CF 18	B	1834	Sep 11	Ayr	Jane, du to Robert McM, Innkeeper, and Jane McGill	AYR
M	CF 18	B	1834	Jan 13	Dalmellington	McMurtrie,Thomas : Thomas McMurtrie/ Agnes Hood	AYR
R	CF 18	B	1837	Apr 29	Dalmellington	Charles 4th chld 2nd son of Thomas McM butler & agnes Hood b 29 apr, bapt 18 May 1837	AYR
D	CF 18	B	1837	Apr 27	Ayr	Mary, dau to Robert McM, Innkeeper, and Jean McGill	AYR
D	CF 18	B	1839	Feb 17	Ayr	Robert, son to Robert McM, Innkeeper, and Jean McGill	AYR
S	CF 18	B	1842	Jan 10	Ayr	Susan, dau to Robert McM innkeeper of Ayr and Jean McGill, bapt 16 jan 1842	AYR
D	CF 18	B	1844	May 15	Ayr	Thomas, son to Robert McM and Jean McGill	AYR
M	CF 18	M	1846	Aug 4	Barony	McMurtrie,John : Agnes McLean	LAN
R	CF 18	M	1851	Dec 31	Dalmellington	William Brown of Gorbals & Jane McM t.p. 21 Dec 1851, md 31 Dec 1851	AYR
M	CF 18	M	1854	Dec 3	Ayr	McMurtrie,James and Margaret Lawson	AYR
D	CF 18?	B	1812	Oct 12/13	Kirkmichael	John son to John McM and Julia McGown, Cronnyhill	AYR
S	CF 18?	D	1844	Sept 16	Ayr	Thomas McM aged 4 High St	AYR

3. Margaret Kay

Age: 40

Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811

Relationship: Wife

Spouse's Name: Andrew

Gender: Female

Where born: Kirkmichael, Ayrsh

Parish Number: 860

Civil Parish: Carsphairn

Town: Woodhe Lead Mine

County: Kirkcudbrightshire

Address: Ganyhorn ??re 51

Occupation: Dairy Woman

ED: 2

Page: 16 (click to see others on page)

Household schedule number: 51

Line: 17

Roll: CSSCT1851_211

Household Members: Name Age

Elizabeth Brown 15

Andrew Kay 35

Margaret Kay 40

Margaret Kay 6

John Kay 3

William Kay 2 Mo

1861 in Dalmellington gives age 52, hence 1809 birth.

1871, 1881 all give Kirkmichael birth